“We want players to love our games and play for years to come” with Christian Jürgensen
The Community Lounge Season 1 Episode 5
Today I chat with Christian Jürgensen, currently working as a community management specialist at InnoGames.
Christian’s story into community management is unique. Christian was working as a film producer in LA, he moved to Brazil, and then he was brave enough to jump at an opportunity that let him start a new career in community management.
Games mentioned in this episode: Tribal Wars, Grepolis, Heroes of History, RuneScape, Total War, Red Dead Redemption 2
Find Christian on LinkedIn.
The Community Lounge is brought to you by Feature Upvote: Painlessly collect feedback from your players. More insights, less noise.
Transcript
Steve McLeod
I’m Steve McLeod, and you are listening to the Community Lounge, the podcast where community managers from the video games industry tell their story, talk about the challenges they face, and share tips to help other community managers do their job better. Today I chat with Christian Jürgensen, currently working as a community management specialist at Innogames in Germany. Christian’s story into community management is unique, I think. Christian was working as a film producer in LA. He moved to Brazil, and there he was brave enough to jump at an opportunity that let him start a new career in community management.
Christian, welcome to the show.
Christian Jürgensen
Yeah, hi, Steve, thank you for having me.
Steve McLeod
We met in Cologne at – what’s the name of the big event? I’ve forgotten already.
Christian Jürgensen
It’s called Gamescom.
Steve McLeod
Exactly, Gamescom. Yeah. In which we got to talk. And I remember at the time thinking, if I ever make a podcast, Christian is the guy I want to have on the show. Because you have a really interesting story about how you came to be a community manager.
Christian Jürgensen
Actually, my background was not in gaming at all. It was in film. I used to be a producer in Los Angeles, and next to advertising and things, we were also producing a documentary which took me to different countries, and one of them was Brazil. And basically once I came to Brazil, I was like, oh, my God, what a beautiful place. And living in LA for such a long time, it really kind of drained my soul in a certain sense. And I kind of refound passion for life in Brazil, and I felt like, you know what? I need a change in my life and basically decided to move to Brazil.
And after a certain time there in Brazil, I also noticed maybe getting back into film is rather hard. And I was looking for a job, and next thing you know, I asked a friend at a party who has been sharing his Instagram stories, and it was really always interesting, like a great company. And I was like, what is this guy working as? So anyway, so I asked him, what do you work? And he said, I work for this game company. And I was, okay, cool. What do you do there?
And he said, I work as a community manager. And I was, all right, what is that? And he was like, well, you know, it’s basically we’re the middle guys between the players and the company. And I was like, okay, very interesting. And I said, do you have a job for me?
And he said, very funny. You know, what can you do? And I was like, well, literally, I can do anything you need me to do, I’ll do it. And he said, okay, that’s interesting. Blah, blah. And Then he said, hold on, you speak German, right? And I was like, yeah, Ich spreche Deutsch. And then he was like, hold on and you speak French, right? Oui, je parle français.
And then he said, okay, you know what, send me your resume anyway. And not even two, three weeks later I started working there. So it was a very lucky, lucky punch because I ended up being coming or joining an industry that I’m absolutely passionate about these days. And I couldn’t imagine life anymore in film only.
And it was also funny that I always wanted to work for a game company. I always thought like through film, at some point I will have to do something with a game. But yeah, it ended up being completely different. But now I work in the game industry and I’m super happy to be here.
Steve McLeod
First of all, were you a gamer beforehand, before you got into the industry?
Christian Jürgensen
Yes, I would say I grew up around the gaming world since I’m a small child. My father used to have a company that was, you know, they had computers and stuff, so we had very early access to games. And I think that was one of the reasons that I was always passionate about it in the first place. So yeah, I definitely grew up around games or with games.
Steve McLeod
You know, I’m beginning to think this is almost a pointless question. Everybody grows up around games these days. Everybody’s a gamer.
So second question about that story is why was the guy in Brazil interested in whether you could speak German and French? How did that have to play a role?
Christian Jürgensen
So funny enough, they were actually looking for a community manager that could speak those languages. So there were need for a community manager that was able to do German and French ideally at the same time, but obviously it’s super hard to find. And I basically ran into him in the other way.
It was funny because at first he really thought he’s just talking, but then when he thought about it again that I could actually be helpful, it went so fast in the end. I think I never got a job that quickly, so easy because it was just the right guy at the right time, basically.
Steve McLeod
Wow, that’s a lot of luck. But also, you took a chance, right? You took a chance on this guy and he took a chance on you. And the third question I have from that story is, what is the gaming industry like in Brazil?
Is it normally in Portuguese? or in English?
Christian Jürgensen
So it’s actually much bigger than you would think, the gaming industry there. And funny enough, at the beginning they understood I couldn’t speak Portuguese yet, right? I was there a couple of months, I couldn’t really speak it yet.
So they let me speak in English. Most of the people in development studios, they are able to speak English. I mean, yeah, 99%, I would say, at least the people that I’ve met. And so at the beginning, it was all good. Everybody was speaking with me in English.
Some people were not as good in it, but in general, I was able to communicate. And then later on, as I progressed in the company, maybe get to that later, too.
Yeah, I suddenly started. I was like, invited to meetings and they would just start talking in Portuguese to me. And I was like, okay, now let’s get going. So it was really funny that, to see also this transition of where they, like, kind of expected for me to speak Portuguese as well.
Steve McLeod
But isn’t that the best way to learn?
I used to live in Germany and I had a lot of trouble learning German. And I took a job where I had to do everything in German. And the first weeks were horrible. I just had no idea what was going on. And I felt suddenly really incompetent. But, boy, did I have a motivation to learn.
Christian Jürgensen
Yeah, absolutely. I think. I think.
I don’t know exactly how it happened. It was kind of like overnight that I suddenly was able to speak and understand everything because I didn’t really do much school per se. I did at the beginning some tandem course, basically where I was teaching somebody German or French and they would teach me Portuguese. But I stopped at that quite soon after. I had too much work actually on my hands. And so, yeah, funny enough, I don’t really remember the day when it just started to happen. My wife says it was this one day that I was in the Uber and I suddenly started to talk to this Uber driver, like, out of nowhere.
I cannot really grasp how it happened or it just happened.
Steve McLeod
Fantastic. And they said your job at this company initially was to be between the company and the players. Is that the reality that you experienced or did it become more than that?
Christian Jürgensen
Yeah, so in the beginning I was just like, I would call it a normal community manager. So basically, you know, dealing with tickets, dealing with announcing stuff in your language and basically dealing with the community, let’s say, on discord, and talking to them and keeping them engaged and keeping them happy. And so it was. Yeah. And then as the time progressed, I progressed also within the company because people would leave and they would need another person that would lead the community management department and stuff like this. So, yeah, at the end, I was basically leading the community management department there, which was… Yeah, that’s when the whole meeting stuff started. And they’re like, oh, yeah, so Christian, “Como vai? Vamos falar português!” And then it was just like, okay.
Steve McLeod
So you’re clearly not still in Brazil because you were working now for Innogames, which is in Germany. What happened? How did you end up going from Brazil? Did you go straight back to Germany? Was there somewhere in between? What was the story there?
Christian Jürgensen
Yeah, there was a few factors actually, that came that played into this.
One of the reasons was really when I visited, well, I was living so many years outside of Europe and to see my family, it just was so hard. And so I really wanted to be basically closer to them. That was one of the major things. And then the other thing was that my wife also felt like, hey, you know what? I’ve been living in Brazil all my life, I want to see something of the world.
And so we were like thinking about, okay, where would this be if we would do that? And then, yeah, I didn’t really want to go back to Switzerland where I’m originally, where I was growing up.
I originally wanted to go to Dublin or something because I had some opportunities there and then. But my wife was like, no, no, no, no, no, we are not going from Brazil to Dublin. Like this weather and da, da, da. And then out of nowhere I was like, hey, hold on, what about Hamburg? Because I knew Hamburg. I worked there once before I was born there. It’s a very international city. I like it, it’s beautiful. And I offered that city to her and she was like, yeah, I like that. And then I was looking for jobs here and basically again, with a bit of luck, I ended up with Innogames.
Steve McLeod
So you went straight from Brazil to Innogames? Well, that’s a big role. And did you go immediately into your current role?
Christian Jürgensen
Yes, at Innogames, I immediately got the community management specialist role there. Yeah.
Steve McLeod
So that also has me curious. People can’t even define what a community manager is. Everybody you talk to has a different definition. But now you’re a community management specialist – what is that?
Christian Jürgensen
It’s a good question, actually. Maybe it’s an Innogames specific term because as I believe the role was called lead community manager back in the days. So I think for reasons they changed it to community management specialist. But ultimately I’m leading a team of community managers all over the world and they have their supporters and moderators and so that’s what it really is. It’s just another name for lead community manager, I would say.
Steve McLeod
And you’re partly the people who work with you are people like what you did initially in Brazil, I’m guessing.
Christian Jürgensen
Yes, exactly.
Steve McLeod
Okay, that brings us up to the present day. Innogames – what type of games are they making for those who are not aware?
Christian Jürgensen
Yeah, sure.
They’re focused on mobile and browser games, free to play. Their oldest game is over 20 years old, Tribal Wars. And Grepolis also is already at 15 years. So it’s a company that has created some long lasting titles and is still developing brand new games. Like they just released Heroes of History globally recently which is supposed to be another big game. And yeah, they have a lot of like these titles that have managed to age well, shall we say.
Steve McLeod
My direct experience with community managers tends to be in games that are paid games but these are free-to-play games. So if I pay a game and I, for example, I want to make an idea for them to improve the game, I feel like I can do that. But with a free-to-play game, do players also feel like they can give you feedback on how they want the game to change?
Christian Jürgensen
Absolutely. I think they just have as much voice or ambition for us to make it even better.
And just because it’s free to play doesn’t mean there is some way for them to spend money as well. Right. So some people do feel then because they have spent money that they’re entitled for us to listen to them.
I mean in the end of course that’s what we want, right. We want players to love our games and play them on and on and on for years to come.
So yeah, it’s just as much if not more even I would say in free to play because sometimes, for example, if you buy a AAA game, you basically are like with that there and then there comes a few updates but at some point they won’t do much with it anymore, right. And I think these free-to-play games are much more in need to also listen to the feedback that they receive from players.
Steve McLeod
That makes sense especially with one game over 20 years. Is that over that time it keeps on getting improved and improved.
Christian Jürgensen
Yes, absolutely.
Steve McLeod
That’s just phenomenal. It’d be interesting to go and see a game like that as it was 20 years ago and play it and then see what it is like today. I bet the games have very little to do with each other. They would have evolved so much.
Christian Jürgensen
It’s actually funny that you say that because I was just talking to a guy yesterday in the company and he actually mentioned that the original version of Tribal Wars, for example, you can’t even play anymore, on our systems. They were playing it, the 2007 version at some point, and that one had to be done on a completely different outside servers and stuff because otherwise it would have had too many security risks and stuff. So yeah, a lot of things have happened since and I think, you know, that’s the natural process as well of making things more professional, making it better and stuff.
Steve McLeod
Yeah, indeed.
Okay, let’s move on to your experience in general as a community manager or a community management specialist.
So do you have any idea that comes to mind of a positive moment of being a community manager? Some nice story that’s really stood out to you over the years?
Christian Jürgensen
Yeah, I think one of the nicest things or one of the nicest first things that happened was in the old company, like the Brazilian company, there was a very tight knit community and they had created a mascot or they were using a mascot in the Discord that was basically on a fugu fish.
Steve McLeod
A fugu fish?
Christian Jürgensen
Yeah, it’s like one of those that blows up and has like thorns and stuff. I don’t know, it’s like it’s a fish, right?
Yeah, well, they called it fugu and that fugu fish – I think if you Google it, you’ll have a better picture in front of you. But yeah, so they basically created one in my image for me because I was always wearing a hat. And so basically they created my own fugu fish or mascot thingy. And I think that was super cute. It was super nice to see that. Yeah, I was basically being welcomed with open arms in the community after a while, you know, and that was, that was really nice.
Steve McLeod
Wait, this was a digital fugu fish or well inside the game?
Christian Jürgensen
No, inside the game. So it started as a mascot from the community, right. As a meme per se. And over time they created like little emojis and stuff and we picked it up later on in the game. So we were like, oh, we love fugu too. And then we started using it as like in game assets and stuff. It’s one of these examples where you can really see that the community has quite a lot of impact sometimes of creating cool things and that they are actually part in the development of a game quite heavily sometimes.
Steve McLeod
That’s really nice. I guess it’s ultimately up to the game management as to how much they want to let the community be part of it. But when they do, it’s nice to see the community really embrace that.
Moving on… what’s a story of a challenge as a community manager that you face that stands out in your mind one time when you really found it hard or kind of stuck in what you were doing?
Christian Jürgensen
It also goes back to the other company, I guess because we were porting the game. Our big game, we were porting it to the PlayStation and Xbox and during that time our entire development team, the entire company was basically focused on doing that instead of creating new content for the players. And so it was a really difficult situation because we were like for a year not bringing out much new content, a little bit, but not much. And at the same time we were not able to tell them what we were doing. So it was a really difficult situation because I just wanted to like, ah, you have no idea what we’re doing right now. But yeah, we couldn’t. So that was difficult, I think. And then later on as well, when for example, like I knew that one of the games would be closing and I couldn’t tell the community. And yeah, this was also difficult, like trying to pretend, having the happy face while, you know, things are going bad. This is kind of sad as well. This is definitely difficult.
Steve McLeod
That’s really tough especially I guess if you’re seeing players who are really, really enthusiastic, the biggest fans and you just can’t tell them.
Christian Jürgensen
Back then I also did live streams and stuff, so you know, you’d be like on camera and yeah, it was difficult sometimes to like try to hide your true emotions and what is upcoming. And yeah, so that was not always easy. But I think ultimately it also points out, like, I think it also taught me that you sometimes have to also be able to detach a little bit from that because otherwise if you always take it too personal, it can also backfire to you and your own personal health can, or your mental health can struggle under this. So I think it was a good learning experience for me as well at the same time.
Steve McLeod
How do you detach?
Christian Jürgensen
Huh! In not taking everything too serious? Because ultimately, I mean, that’s my personal opinion, but ultimately it’s just games, right? I mean, in life there’s so many more serious things that should have priority and sometimes we forget how that they exist as well. So if you, I think being able to do that and just remember, hey, we’re just this is first of all, it’s just the gaming world. This soccer team coach or ex coach, Mr. Klopp, he always said it’s just football. And I think that kind of like with that attitude, I also go to it as well. It’s just a game. However, of course for players, sometimes that’s not.
Those two things have become the same, right? Life has become the game. And so it’s maybe much more difficult for them than for you.
Steve McLeod
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Steve McLeod
Going back a little bit. You said that the Brazilian company, they were working on an Xbox and a PlayStation port for a year, but they couldn’t mention it. Is there a reason why they couldn’t mention it? Is that the rules with PlayStation and Xbox, you just can’t say, or was that your own choice?
Christian Jürgensen
I actually don’t recall. I think PlayStation, it’s very possible that one of the companies does have something in there until you actually did it that you cannot mention or something. But I think it was also like a business decision back then for whatever reason. But I can’t really recall what the reasoning was.
I just remember that we couldn’t tell anything.
I think it was also because we weren’t sure 100% if it’s going to work.
And so if you announce something that’s not going to work, then I think it was also one of these reasons. But to be very fair, I’m not 100% anymore. Sure. What were the exact reasons, the exact list of reasons.
Steve McLeod
Yeah, it kind of makes sense. You want to keep your options open and that includes cancelling a project if you need to.
But that problem where you have to be able to tell stuff to the players but you’ve got nothing to tell them. That’s really tough.
Christian Jürgensen
Yeah, you try to point out some of the small things that you are doing. It’s not like we didn’t do anything, right. But it’s difficult. But you do it with other ways. And I think that’s also sometimes your job. Sometimes it is trying to create engagement without necessarily having great news or bringing up the mood without having a new feature to show all the time. Sometimes that’s also part of the job.
Steve McLeod
That segues very nicely into my next question. Where do you learn how to do your job better? Where do you learn these techniques and tricks?
Christian Jürgensen
I would say a lot of it has to do with mentoring from other, like with other people that I’ve worked with. And also now at Innogames for example, I think we’re quite a big department and so there’s a lot of knowledge exchanged there from, you know, people come from different companies, they have different experiences.
That’s one part. And then on the other hand I think it’s very important to also look what other companies are doing. You know, what are other community members doing? How do they lead their community? Like I like to go into my favorite games and just check what they do, you know, sometimes it’s actually interesting. Some of my favorite games that don’t do much at all because the games are so successful they don’t have to do much. Right. And then other games are really like based on the community and without the community the whole development wouldn’t work. Like Jagex is an example where the community is basically part one to one with the development.
And then there is also some sources like some Discord groups and stuff where community members come together and can talk as well and ask for tips and stuff. But ultimately I think it’s the idea of you never have learned everything and it’s always changing as well. I think especially in our industry.
It’s evolving so fast now also with AI coming in and stuff, there’s always new things to learn. And so yeah, if I have the opportunity I try to go to conferences and stuff and learn more and connect with people. So yeah, definitely that.
Steve McLeod
You mentioned a game where you said you liked what they were doing with the community, but I didn’t catch the name. What was that game?
Christian Jürgensen
Jagex.
The company Jagex and the game RuneScape. It’s a super old game as well where they have been really listening to the community and working with them and made processes of integrating them into the development process. And I think that’s really awesome.
Steve McLeod
Out of my own personal professional curiosity, how do they listen to the players? What means do they use?
Christian Jürgensen
They have just numerous ways of voting and feedback loops and stuff like this.
So there’s this studio called Amplitude Studios and they created a tool called games2gether and what they did is basically integrating a way – it’s basically a website where players have a profile that they can connect to their game profile. And when they help another player or when they give feedback or when they make a tutorial video, they get like XP points and over time they get badges and stuff. So they gamify the whole feedback loop with the game itself. And I think that is really, really smart because first of all you’re connecting the players. You are aware who is this player or this person is giving you feedback. Like if you have a person on Discord and he gives you feedback, you don’t necessarily know who is this player profile in game,right. And with their technique, shall we say with their tool, they are exactly knowing who that person is that is giving that feedback. And I think that is extremely valuable. And they use it.
That games2gether platform is also used by Creative Assembly, I think so for their Total War series and stuff.
So that’s pretty neat. Pretty neat thing.
Steve McLeod
So let’s move on to tips. Any tips you might have for community managers? Anything you just think you’d love to share with other community managers about how they can do their job better?
Christian Jürgensen
Lot of community managers come in because they’re super passionate about a certain game and then maybe they become a moderator on Discord or something and then they move up the ranks, which is also definitely a valid way to do so. But usually these people are extremely attached as well to the game. Right. And so let’s say a game decides to close or something within a studio, then you’re dramatically part of that also with your mental health. But yeah, other things that I think are important is just to be open to learn new things. You know, just because you had learned the ropes in one specific place and you think that is community management doesn’t mean that is community management.
A lot of companies have different ways of what they think is community management in the first place. And I don’t think there’s a 100% this is it yet or will ever be. It’s an ever evolving job. And so being open and wanting to learn more and all of that is extremely important. And maybe lastly, you should be a quite open person in general.
You have to be kind of a people person and wanting to work with people because you’re not only working with the community, you’re working with maybe other community managers, You’re working with stakeholders within the company with a lot of different types of people from all kind of walks of life. And so it’s important. I think one of the major points is that you are able to get to deal with that, you know, with the differences of personalities and stuff.
Steve McLeod
I think in the games industry that’s a really big one.
Christian Jürgensen
But a dev, for example, can hide it a little bit easier, you know, because he’s like behind his PC in most cases and maybe has a few meetings. But they have less interaction with different types of people all day long, right. They have their few people they talk to.
Steve McLeod
So over the summer, the European summer, I went to several events for the business side of the video games industry and I was just blown away by the diversity of lifestyles and people you meet, their ways of communicating and so on. And I think it’s amazing for how much it provides a home for a lot of people who would have, maybe wouldn’t fit in easily in some other parts of life. So I can imagine as a community manager you are having to be very, very flexible in the way you communicate with all sorts of people.
Christian Jürgensen
Yeah. And there’s different ways to communicate as well, right. I guess the way you talk to your product manager is a little bit different than to management or a little bit different to your game designer. And each time, I think finding the right ways to talk to people is also one of your jobs as well.
Ultimately though, just be a nice guy. I think this is super important: just be a nice guy. Take the ego out of the equation. I think very often if you have an ego, too much of an ego, then that can hurt. But if you try to take that out and just focus on, hey, let’s collaborate, let’s make awesome things happen, that really is helpful in the end.
Steve McLeod
How does one take the ego out?
I’m asking for a friend!
Christian Jürgensen
I don’t know. There’s this saying that’s from, I don’t know, like, starve the ego, feed the soul.
So, you know, come from a human perspective and I think that that already helps. You know, we’re all humans, we’re all in the same boat in the end and let’s make our experience as positive as possible. And I think if you go with that mindset, then every interaction should be, should be nice.
Steve McLeod
So I want to jump back to something you mentioned way, way earlier. You said before you were in the games industry you studied film and then you made some documentaries or a documentary. How much has that affected or had an impact on your job as a community manager? The skills you learned in filmmaking?
Christian Jürgensen
Yeah, I think as a producer it was like, there’s a lot of interaction or intercuttings there.
Because as a producer you’re also really like having a lot of different stakeholders you’re talking to, from the different actors to the different crew members to location owners and stuff like this. So, you know, I did a lot of line producing where you’re literally organizing all of this stuff.
Or I was also assistant director at some point where you do a lot of scheduling and things.
So ultimately these skills definitely helped me later on in community management as well. Because you are a little bit of a product manager or a project manager if you wish and you have to deal with a lot of different stakeholders all the time. So yeah, it was very transferable the skills I had from film to gaming. I never felt like I was completely out of the water per se.
Of course it was a new way of doing things and you had to learn in that regards the ropes. But in terms of just structuring your personal organization and stuff like this, this was very much aligned with what I already did before.
Steve McLeod
So it was the soft skills really you brought across rather than specifically how to make a film. But it was more like working with people that you brought with you to The community management role.
Christian Jürgensen
And being organized. I think it’s extremely important as a community manager to be organized.
If you’re not organized, it gets much more difficult.
Steve McLeod
Anything else you’d like to discuss while I’ve got you here? Is there anything from Innogames you’re allowed to tell us that you would like to tell us?
Christian Jürgensen
Yeah, not sure. I think the biggest news that I can share is this new game, Heroes of History. I think we’re all super excited about it.
We haven’t really pushed it yet. So the big push is still going to come. But if you haven’t tested it out yet, you should. It’s a great mobile game with lots of of cool heroes and I think that’s a really cool thing that is coming out of Innogames right now.
Steve McLeod
And what’s your role with that game?
Christian Jürgensen
To be honest, at Heroes of History I’m more of a substitute than the other main community management specialist is on vacation or sick.
But I had some fun. And at Innogames we pride ourselves to be part of all games in terms of testing and playing it all the time.
So yeah, I’ve done that quite a lot as well. But I’m not necessarily involved in the everyday business actually myself, I’m moving over in November to Tribal Wars and Grepolis. I’m going to take over some of our classic games and make sure that we continue to make the community happy there.
Steve McLeod
Excellent. We’re running out of time, so I have to ask you the final question I ask everybody on this show. What game have you been playing lately, apart from Heroes of History?
Christian Jürgensen
Actually, this is funny.
I have replayed Red Dead Redemption 2 again.
The first time I played it, I played it within two weeks. And this time I’ve given myself a lot of time and I’ve played it.
I’m now back in the epilogue again, but I’ve given myself a lot of time trying to find a lot of… I don’t know, I think it’s an amazing game, has a lot of different things to explore and I love the interactions that just happen out of nowhere and things like this.
Steve McLeod
This for me is amazing because you’re working in the games industry all day and that’s a game that takes a lot of time and energy.
So you go home after work and then play games a lot.
Christian Jürgensen
Yeah, I mean, actually I haven’t played as much as you would think, but yeah, this game has definitely taken its toll on me. In regards to that, I also told my wife, like, you know, this is just a phase. It’ll be gone again.
Usually when I play, I play like FIFA quite often as well, but I play like one or two matches, like career mode, and then I’m done. And that’s literally the reason why I’m doing it. So, yeah, there’s a danger of being too much on your PC or console or whatever
Steve McLeod
These days. I just can’t get into the games that demand a lot of time. I just can’t. I just don’t have the time for it. I know that it’s a trap. So, yeah, I’m impressed that you could play Red Dead Redemption 2 a second time.
Christian Jürgensen
It’s just so good. You should try it. I mean, I don’t know, I got really hooked by this game. I think it’s one of the best, one of the best games that was ever released, to be fair, next to the GTA series, probably. But yeah, I think it’s a fantastic game.
Steve McLeod
That’s big praise. Okay, wrapping up, would you like to share where people could get in touch with you if they want to learn more about what you’re doing?
Do you have social media presences?
Christian Jürgensen
I think the best place is actually LinkedIn, just from that way I see it fastest. And I’ll always reply when you reach out.
Steve McLeod
Okay, I’ll make sure that’s in the show notes. Christian, thank you again for being on the show.
Christian Jürgensen
Thank you so much for having me.
Steve McLeod
Bye everybody. Bye Christian.
Christian Jürgensen
Bye bye.
Steve McLeod
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